Vasto Lorde discussion

[D - Tetsushiga Mai]

So I see that in the chain of Equivalence, VLs are put at roughly the same level as a VC. Personally I think they're a lot more powerful. Hitsuguya states that 10 of them could destroy SS, and at no point does he mention that thats 10 VL originated arrancars. He is at this point explaining the menos hierarchy, the arrancar bit comes later, so in my mind he is quite explicitly stating that 10 Vasto Lorde menos could overcome Soul Society. That would put them at the Higher Tier Captain level (Generally its considered that Hits, Mayuri, Soifon are low level examples, Byakuya, Zaraki, Komamura, Tousen, Gin are mid level and Yama-iji, Aizen, Ukitake, Shunsui and Unohana are high level captains) if not even more powerful than that. I just wanted to hear your opinions on this, i thought the topic was fair game seeing as no one is allowed VL based arrancar anyway.

[GoldenKitten]

Thus you have hit upon the grand order of the RP world. It could be argued that they were referring to 10 perfectly pure VL of which none exist but I won't bother with that since its a canon consideration.

Instead I will just say thats how this RP is. While technically the shinigami have the most characters if you consider the actual numbers that would have to be around they are so vastly outnumbered its sickening. With the whole of Las Noches nipping at their heels and all other divisions waiting until the former gets in a good hit to take a snap of their own they are already in what in reality would be a no-win situation. If I went and made the VL as powerful as the pure VL might be in the canon then from a realistic standpoint SS would be around for a grand total of a few days.

The issue is this, in the canon it can take hundreds of thousands of years for one to become a VL at the level of a captain. That means that you probably have some ridiculous chance like 1/1000000000 of being strong enough and surviving long enough to reach that level and even then it is said they hide deep in Hueco Mundo. That is not so here in the RP, a determined member could quite literally post enough to get the points to transform in a day or two if they so sought it and since it'd be boring to be in the middle of nowhere they would be making normal ventures into the real world. So if I made them that powerful there would instantly be a rush to that character, the scales would be horribly unbalanced and if I tried to be harsher in grading the post so as not to give to much power the board would call foul and say I was being unfair.

For these reasons VL among other creatures without a proper hierarchy have to be limited in power to make up for what holds the potential for unbelievable numbers.

[Zhiel]

Makes good sense to me, though I'd say that even if they are power level 4 that should not be the limit of ones power, in theory one should be able to ascend higher through effort, time, and experience. Of course that would all be up to the person who's character it is and the one leading the RP, and it would naturally apply to all characters and not just VS.

When Gahrok was still around, I talked with him and we agreed on that Kehiel, who had been a Vasto Lorde was at the strength of a captain, due to being one of the oldest Vasto Lorde around. Of course that has no actual bearing on his current state as he's weaker than Azerin right now, just that he adds his own power to that of Azerins when in controll... Im rambling again, nevermind xD

[D - Tetsushiga Mai]

All perfectly fair points relating to the RP. Im a fairly active member on the Bleach Exile forums (where I get my anime/manga needs from, oh the shameless plug lol) and theres been a lot of discussion over there as to the actual power of the VL. Due to image of a silhouette that bared a high resemblance to Ulquiorra being flashed on screen when Hitsuguya mentioned the VL, many people within reason suspect him to be VL level, and as such, Halibel, Stark and Barragan above him as well. But from what i've seen of Ulquiorra, he just doesnt seem beasty enough to be a VL, ok sure he hasnt even laid a finger on his sword yet, but he did comment when he and yammy encountered Yoruichi and Urahara that the two of them (that is, yammy and he) wouldnt stand a chance, and whilst I love Urahara and Yoruichi i really dont personally believe they are at/ higher than Arrancarized VL level.
Basically put, do you think VLs are going to live up to the hype?

[Roddo]

Well, the chain of equivalency is just a basic idea of where you should be. Of course there would be certain things that would actually change according to your situation. For example, for me ... a phase 2 Vizard with bankai is below a captain (Who knows how) BUT ... i'm an ex-captain. Meaning somewhere down in history i started off at that point, i'm sure having a mask didn't make me weaker ... but you have to look through all of that to understand.

[GoldenKitten]

Exactly as Roddo said its a generalization so that someone who just joined can't say “Z0MG 1Z GOD!!! I H1GH3R Lvel TH3N U!!!! U N0 CAN B34T ME!!!! LOLOLOL!”. No we have not had a person like that yet but they are out there and we have dealt with a few cases of members trying to be overly powerful, these rules help limit that.

There is no doubt that given particular circumstances the member can move beyond that point but around there it becomes more reliant on a members own writing skill. Instead of me sitting around grading training threads for their strength its more about what they experience in the RP's. Given you will still be watched and held accountable if you do something insane but there is no true limit, so long as it is realistic growing in strength is possible. Of course all members are checked because while there is no limit there is also a certain ever growing level that has to be held lest we invite god modders into our ranks. Regardless as the hierarchy of BS grows in strength so will the bar at which others can grow to.

[D - Tetsushiga Mai]

I didnt want to create a thread purely to say this, so it can go here: Zero, GK, your ninth division Taichou and VC are, how shall we say.... MESSED IN THE HEAD. But I like reading their posts haha. Nice work.

[GoldenKitten]

Why thank you. Suppose that means I am doing my job properly.

[D - Tetsushiga Mai]

Im going to have to make Clown extra violent now to try and keep up... but then i guess he as Exequias is in an equivalent position to Div 9 Executions... hehe... ill have to try and come up with my own original idea as opposed to the dungeon/ Hostel (tm) like vision that you have created.

[Zhiel]

The way you've gotten to see the Exequitias I'd say they are fully obedient and are simply there to dispose of threats/failiures, not to torture anyone, seemed like that atleast, but I guess your character is your choise.

[GoldenKitten]

I would have to agree, they are more like an assassins cult hunting down specialty targets in unison than an information extraction or torture guild.

[chanchan05]

I was under the impression that Barragan at least was a vasto lorde. He does seemed to be the 1st Espada, with his taking command after Aizen got trapped, and there was the mission of nel and noitra where they had to capture a vasto lorde, where noitra almost died. (which means to say that a vasto lorde would most likely be at noitra's present strength level, saying so, ulquiorra may be a "weak" vasto lorde (newly evolved) gaining a bit more power upon arrancarization, or a very powerful adjuchas.

[Galihan]

It's hard to tell because it is implied that any of the arrancar made by Aizen and the Hōgyoku are much stronger than those who underwent shinigamification naturally. Its also pretty obvious that Ulquiorra was a vasto lorde when Toshiro explains the rankings of menos. And when does Nnoitra ever almost die in a flashback?

[Zhiel]

This is why I get so annoyed by all the 200 year old under number five espadas being vasto lorde -_-

If I ever wrote a proper backstory for Kehieleth it would become a book as he's over nine thousand years old, sure by his four or five thousand years I assume he was at low espada level, but it should still take several hundred years to become a vasto lorde, and transforming to a arrancar right away would not make them a espada by our chain.

[chanchan05]

Oh, Galihan, I'm not really sure that its in the anime yet, but you could check it up on the manga...chapter 312 page 12, aizen had given noitra ang nel orders to seek a vasto lorde...same chapter page 14, noitra was asking nel why she helped him, and she answered simply that it was to prevent the espada from losing a member...note that noitra was a quite roughed up from battle in this scene.