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Post by Shinkei on Feb 25, 2008 12:40:44 GMT -4
I noticed your chain that depicts what is equal. And I would like to point out that arrancar are weaker than their shinigami counterparts. Byakuya completely obliterated his opponent, only hurting himself to stop himself being controlled, and Mayuri was able to fight without as much of a scratch. Kenpachi is also able to fight almost equally with the 5th espada without bankai, or shikai abilities. So, in fairness, arrancar are weaker than Shinigami, weaker than Vizard (who are shinigami with hollow powers, thus giving them strength similar to SHinigami + Arrancar of same rank).
So basically, I believe that, in accordance with Bleach manga, arrancar cannot keep up with bankai. (Even Ikkaku was able to win, and hes like what, the 3rd seat) Basically, Aizen/Yammato > VIzard Hollow Powers > Bankai > Ressereccion (am very bad at spanish) > Shikai...sort of.
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Post by Harmony on Feb 25, 2008 13:40:29 GMT -4
Luv, the arrancar Ikkaku fought was a numeros, which we have listed as a class 3, and even added in parenthesis afterwards - only SLIGHTLY stronger than a vice captain without bankai. The espada are a great deal stronger than numeros in the anime
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Post by Shinkei on Feb 25, 2008 14:18:25 GMT -4
I know that, but Kenpachi (who doesn't have Bankai) can fight Nnotria almost winning, in his ressurecion (pardon my spanish) state. And hes probably going to win too, simply because Kenpachi is one of the main characters.
And (spoiler alert from manga btw)
Rukia beats the 9th Espada. Without Bankai. And shes relatively weak. ANd i'm sure you've seen the thing about 33,000 hollow's powers in one.
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Hizeme
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Post by Hizeme on Feb 25, 2008 14:28:03 GMT -4
I understand, but your comparing latter espada to higher number espada. We have seen eight, 10, etc etc etc I highly doubt Halibe, Stark, uquillia (sp) and that old guy are going to be weak, let alone push overs and for those who beat each other think about it (Mayuri vs 8th, exactly the same type) Plus Aizen, Gin, Tosen are going to be stronger as well, plus Aizen might become a vizard (spoiler) so we shall see
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Post by GoldenKitten on Feb 25, 2008 14:31:28 GMT -4
...Generally when you give a spoiler you put the warning BEFORE the spoiler Hizeme.
*walks off grumbling to self*
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Hizeme
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Post by Hizeme on Feb 25, 2008 14:34:27 GMT -4
This whole thread is a spoiler from the anime (which doesn't count) like Harry Potter Movies everyone knows what is going to happen in the movies. But agreed spoilers go before the post
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Post by GoldenKitten on Feb 25, 2008 14:43:55 GMT -4
Ya, but certain spoilers are more spoiler-y (yay for making up words) than others. Some people just can't keep their mouths shut on certain forums that discuss the anime/manga ("LAWL VIZARD RAPE ICHIGO!!!!" thirty years before the vizard showed up) so certain twist are known. Don't get me wrong if your like me you already know what’s coming despite not reading the manga, I was just pointing out you put the spoiler tag after the spoiler . Anyway as the topic stands I don't know what all the fights will be but call it sentimentalist toward my own Espada but would this entire story arc have been for naught and utter anti-climatic if the top Espada weren’t at least captain worthy?
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Post by Shinkei on Feb 25, 2008 16:41:57 GMT -4
For the Gin and Tosen being strong: Hitsugaya is about the same strengthas Gin, and Tosen is quite weak (he and komamura were both owned by Kenpachi)
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Post by Harmony on Feb 25, 2008 18:39:11 GMT -4
Also, you must take into account that kenpachi is nearly... like inhuman (well i mean all of them are... but he's more inhuman than the others) There will ALWAYS be exceptions. The chain of equivalence does not exist to predetermine the result of fights, but rather to give a good idea of the normal flow of things.
Alot of it depends on the characters, and even the way the rper controls them. It IS possible for exceptions to occur... i don not think it's necessary to rearrange the entire chain to accommodate for things that don't need to be accommodated for
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Post by Galihan on Feb 26, 2008 16:55:25 GMT -4
Im sure Tousen got a lot stronger seeing as he was able to easily cut off Grimmjow's arm after Ichigo couldn't do dick all. As for Hitsugaya and Ichimaru, I could tell that Gin was just toying while Toshiro was fighting with all his heart.
From here on after, I'll mark as a spoiler just in case, because thats just how generous I am.
As for the earlier part of the discussion, those were only the weaker Espada. Aaroniero lacked actual strength and depended on Rukia being unable to attack Kaien, Szayel can't fight for shit unless he can set up the entire battle to work in his favor beforehand, Zommari was up agasint Byakuya so I'll leave it at that, and as for Nniorta, he's too full of himself and is underestimating Kenpachi even as he's constantly getting bested.
From here on after Is just me speculating on the future and is not an actual spoiler.
I'm sure Aizen will become vizard, seeing as the orb of distortion supposedly works both ways, and I'm sure once the espada are mostly dealt with, he'll use it on Gin and himself (Tousen will probably be killed by Komamura beforehand.) Gin will be unable to handle it and be overpowered by the hollow within and Aizen will probably be killed by Orihime. Oh, and Im sure Grimmjow will probably help Ichigo kill Ulquiorra.
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ZR0 C00L
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Post by ZR0 C00L on Feb 26, 2008 18:17:29 GMT -4
i agree that the chain is not in need of drastic overhaul, i would like to point out that the chain does not differentiate between an unreleased espada and the regular form. Maybe switching espada to class 4 and after resurrection have them be class 5 as well as i think there may be a typo in class 5 where its says that a captain and his vice captain are equal to an espada. Correct me if im wrong but i believe it was meant to say captain with his bankai. Other than that its fine. Vaizards seem alittle too strong but meh they are pretty overpowered in the show too.
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elusive
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Post by elusive on Jul 27, 2008 10:53:15 GMT -4
In my oppinion bleach works abit like rock paper scissors. For example: Tosen cut grimmjow's arm of without any trouble atall, Grimmjow beated the crap out of ichigo before that, ichigo beated zeraki and zeraki beated tosen (Well we can't say he beated komomura as he fled before actually using his bankai.). Plus the characters seem to constantly grow in power and one has the upperhand on the other depending on the situation / abilities of both persons. And that's my 2 cents :3
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