Corrupted Vizards

[Angelo]

This is a very popular topic these days...lol


What happens if the Shinigami half loses to the Hollow half of a Vizard?


This is, of course, talking about Ichigo's struggle (As we've currently had NOTHING to go on for any other Vizards...), when he started to become completely Hollow while training with the Vizards.



So, what would have happened to him? What was he "becoming"?

[Sleeps]

I think he would have become a level below that of an Arrancar or so. I say this due to the fact the when he fought the other Vizards the could have defeated him with ease but he was still powerful.

[Galihan]

I think that the resulting Hollow would be strong enough to be able to easily fight on par with at least an Adjuchas-class Menos or a Shinigami Lieutenant, depending on the strength of the Vizard before being taken over. Then the Hollow could become a Menos himself and easily be at least Class 6 or Class 7 in terms of power and be able to fight on terms with the Royal Espada and the Commander-General.

[Angelo]

To clarify something right now (So that no one thinks this, ESPECIALLY Gar and Harm lol), I am NOT trying to get this made into a new Class or Species or anything like that, no, if anything, I'd expect this kind of thing to be given a flat-out No lol This is all simply for speculation and discussion.

Anyways.

Honestly, I'd think that they'd become an unstable version of an Arrancar.

Think about it like this, very strong/old Hollows, more powerful Menos, and virtually all Arrancar are capable of conscious thought, right?

But what about Ichigo's hollow?

Its PURE instinct, just like a regular underdeveloped Hollow. He practically says so himself several times, and look at his fighting style against Ichigo and the fights he enters (Byakuya and the Bount) the only "conscious" thing he does is taunt them and make fun of Ichigo, and when he is actually transformed near-full Hollow and fighting the other Vizards? No real strategy, just attack, attack, attacking.


In my opinion, it would basically be an underdeveloped Arrancar.

It'd have a mostly human shape (Apparently not appearance lol) and a Zanpakuto, but its mind would, for the most part, not be there. Maybe a taunt here and there, but not strategically thinking, just fighting.

[Sleeps]

angelo said:

To clarify something right now (So that no one thinks this, ESPECIALLY Gar and Harm lol), I am NOT trying to get this made into a new Class or Species or anything like that, no, if anything, I'd expect this kind of thing to be given a flat-out No lol This is all simply for speculation and discussion.

Anyways.

Honestly, I'd think that they'd become an unstable version of an Arrancar.

Think about it like this, very strong/old Hollows, more powerful Menos, and virtually all Arrancar are capable of conscious thought, right?

But what about Ichigo's hollow?

Its PURE instinct, just like a regular underdeveloped Hollow. He practically says so himself several times, and look at his fighting style against Ichigo and the fights he enters (Byakuya and the Bount) the only "conscious" thing he does is taunt them and make fun of Ichigo, and when he is actually transformed near-full Hollow and fighting the other Vizards? No real strategy, just attack, attack, attacking.


In my opinion, it would basically be an underdeveloped Arrancar.

It'd have a mostly human shape (Apparently not appearance lol) and a Zanpakuto, but its mind would, for the most part, not be there. Maybe a taunt here and there, but not strategically thinking, just fighting.

When you say "no conscious thought" are we talking about the hollow Ichigo fought in his mind. Because if so I remember His hollow started to swing the blade by the bandages and attack in the same manner. Ichigo said it himself he never thought of doing that and after seeing it he still has yet to do it. But if we are talking about when he fought the other Vizard I agree whole heartedly

[GoldenKitten]

sleeps said:

Because if so I remember His hollow started to swing the blade by the bandages and attack in the same manner. Ichigo said it himself he never thought of doing that and after seeing it he still has yet to do it.

Um, since the time we saw his Hollow do it Ichigo has swung zangetsu by the hilt wrap MANY times, that was the whole point showing how he picked up on that. One of many examples is not too far after that when he’s on top of the Sokyoku. It is true that he usually does it to build up momentum in the blade to swing with instead of throwing it and retrieving it (though he has done that once or twice) but point being he learned from the Hollow to use the wrap.

Anyway as far as the real topic of this goes I agree that it would pretty much be a sub-arrancar. Perhaps like the imperfect arrancar Aizen sent to test before we saw the true Arrancar just with more latent powers within so it could battle harder and longer. However one thing I always wondered was if the Hollow would become more thoughtful and have more control over itself once it had completely subjugated the body and was completely in control instead of battling itself from within...I am not sure of course but something to think about.

Also as far as not making a character like this...well it would be hard to give it a reason in the story. But I cannot see why it would not work, we pretty much agree across the board that it would hardly be as strong as some of the character types are and the Vizard implied that it’s actually rarer for one to beat their Hollow than to lose to it - note how few of them there are. It would simply be a different kind of Vizard...

Anyway, ya, sub-arrancar.

[Angelo]

The reason I doubt it would not be allowed is the simple fact taht we don't know what it would become, and the fact that it wouldn't truly be Canon, just a collaboration of what we all THINK it would be.

As for him having no conscious thought, I mean this as in he couldn't sit down with you and have a loving conversation. I'm saying he would kill you, move onto someone else, kill them, and move on again.

He would be Kenpachi, 10 times worse.

As for how he knew how to do that, well, a lot of people point this simple fact out. He IS Zangetsu, and I don't know about you, but I would know what I am capable of and use me to my full advantage much more than just "my other half" using me. (If I had a seperate me in the form of a Weapon I mean >.> lol) Just because he knows how to bring out his own full potential doesn't mean that he's a genius in disguise. I mean, look at how he talks to Ichigo:

"You fight with your brain. You try to defeat your enemies with your logic! And it doesn't work! You're trying to cut them with a sheathed sword! That is why you're weaker than me, Ichigo!"

"Instinct" isn't conscious thought, its completely subconscious.

[Galihan]

Perhaps, just maybe, the reason Ichigo was entirely fighting on instinct while he was a Hollow was because he and his Inner Hollow were so busy trying to kill each other? I think that if Inner Hollow Ichigo defeated Ichigo, then the Inner Hollow Ichigo would assume control of the Hollow, and he'd be able to talk and think and mock just like the Inner Hollow would.

[Zhiel]

galihan said:

Perhaps, just maybe, the reason Ichigo was entirely fighting on instinct while he was a Hollow was because he and his Inner Hollow were so busy trying to kill each other? I think that if Inner Hollow Ichigo defeated Ichigo, then the Inner Hollow Ichigo would assume control of the Hollow, and he'd be able to talk and think and mock just like the Inner Hollow would.

I've had those thoughts about the situation as well, since as we've seen so far the Hollow has always taunted the opponents and actualy fought with a form of technique, while that instance it seemed to be pure berserking.

[Angelo]

<.<

I talked about this in my first post:

"He practically says so himself several times, and look at his fighting style against Ichigo and the fights he enters (Byakuya and the Bount) the only "conscious" thing he does is taunt them and make fun of Ichigo-"

But anyways, taunting doesn't make you smart. If it did, every bully and jock in the world would get Straight As.

Against Byakuya, does he REALLY show off "technique"?

I mean really, he yells at the Ichigo because he doesn't know how to handle Bankai (And before any of you say "How would he know about this unless he's smart", remember, he IS Zangetsu, he knows what would happen during Bankai and how to handle it, no different from how he thought up the tassel toss), then proceeeds to attack, use his special attack 3 times, and then use it a 4th from behind the guy.

Is that really a "technique" anymore than it is simly attacking as much as you can from every angle? And even if you say it is a "Technique" nonetheless, honestly it still falls within "Being Zangetsu and knowing how to use him to the fullest potential".

Like the Inner Hollow said, the quote in my last post, he isn't thinking when he fights, he's simply using his instincts, more or less combined with his natural knowledge (AKA instincts) of how to bring out the best in Zangetsu.